Per Red e Darksider : le ragioni del no

[Angelo]

Con il Si il governo arrivava a scadenza e poi si vedeva un pò, intanto con le altre nazioni forti in campagna elettorale, l'Italia poteva dire la sua. Con il No ora ci sarà un anno e mezzo di lento declino in cui tutti ci attaccheranno e ci predneranno per il culo    poi il declino continuerà in altro modo. per me è peggio così, ma tanto lo si sapeva che la colpa non era di nessuno. 
Per me va bene così, da domani vediamo un pò come va.
Prevedo un crollo in borsa; Draghi ha già fatto sapere che è pronto ad intervenire, si vedrà.
Montepaschi fallirà probabilmente, poi ci sarà Unicredit, che sta messa male. Tutte e due non potranno ri-finanziarsi sul mercato.
Chi ha soldi in queste due banche gli consiglierei di pensare a spostarli.
Poi chissà, magari non succederà nulla...

Il governo Renzi non era eletto, era largamente detestato dagli uomini onesti, aveva tentato un'indecente riforma costituzionale e per quanto riguarda la Qm era paragonabile ad un Gasparrini al governo... Red, Renzi è finito. E spero finisca nel cesso il PD, con un buon numero di elementi indecenti, femministi, senzapalle, servi della Clinton, guerrafondai...
E con lui spero che spariscano tutte quelle luride femministe del PD e altro sinistronzume vario. Hanno infangato la sinistra con le questioni dei gay, delle lesbiche, dei giochetti/insegnamenti femministi e parapedofili nelle scuole, dell'immigrazionismo con il culo degli altri, con i padri separati alla Caritas, con i matrimoni e le adozioni per i gay e le lesbiche, con il sostegno vigliacco e criminale alle guerre dell'abbronzato Obama e della lurida femminista Clinton, con il politicamente corretto, il linguaggio antisessista...

Adesso vedremo se gli altri politici sono solo degli attori o se hanno la capacità e la voglia di lavorare per far ritornare un po' di sano orgoglio nazionale.

[Vicus]

Speriamo nell'effetto Trump, che ha già prodotto risultati in altri contesti.

[Utente cancellato]

non ci capite molto di politica mi sa 
il primo governo renzi lo rimpiangerete 

[Angelo]

non ci capite molto di politica mi sa 
il primo governo renzi lo rimpiangerete 

Hai votato Sì?  E lo sai perchè rido? Perchè entrando nel seggio, prima di salutare, ho visto un gruppo di sconosciuti che confabulavano di cose da piddini... Gli ho esclamato un bel :" Renzi a casa!!!" . E loro muti. Mi hanno preso per pazzo, per scemo, me ne strafotto. Basta con sti luridi esemplari di relativismo etico, di paraculismo radical chic... E penso che dopo una giornata di lavoro, lavoro non radical chic, me lo posso pure permettere...

Io dovrei rimpiangere un governo messo lì da tecnocrati europei e che esaltava il peggio del liberalismo di sinistra? 

[Angelo]

Con il Si il governo arrivava a scadenza e poi si vedeva un pò, intanto con le altre nazioni forti in campagna elettorale, l'Italia poteva dire la sua. Con il No ora ci sarà un anno e mezzo di lento declino in cui tutti ci attaccheranno e ci predneranno per il culo    poi il declino continuerà in altro modo. per me è peggio così, ma tanto lo si sapeva che la colpa non era di nessuno. 
Per me va bene così, da domani vediamo un pò come va.
Prevedo un crollo in borsa; Draghi ha già fatto sapere che è pronto ad intervenire, si vedrà.
Montepaschi fallirà probabilmente, poi ci sarà Unicredit, che sta messa male. Tutte e due non potranno ri-finanziarsi sul mercato.
Chi ha soldi in queste due banche gli consiglierei di pensare a spostarli.
Poi chissà, magari non succederà nulla...

Sono ipotesi REd. Ipotesi che dipendono dai padroni veri dell'Italia. Resta il fatto che è una totale contraddizione per un qmmista votare Sì ad una riforma che istituzionalizza le quote rosa. E questo, è un fatto.

[Fazer]

Vabbè va, governicchio tecnico Padoan e tutto come prima...
Non che ci volesse molto a immaginarlo...

[Vicus]

Vabbè va, governicchio tecnico Padoan e tutto come prima...
Non che ci volesse molto a immaginarlo...

E io che temevo Monti...
Ma non si era parlato di andare alle urne (quello mai, eh)?

[freethinker]

E io che temevo Monti...
Ma non si era parlato di andare alle urne (quello mai, eh)?

Le elezioni nuociono gravemente ai poteri forti: gli hanno detto di smettere

[Vicus]

Si possono sempre "aggiustare" dopo!

[Fazer]

Si possono sempre "aggiustare" dopo!

Come in Austria magari...
In ogni caso, sospetto che il fantasma Mattarello opti per un reincarico a Renzie.
E non sarebbe la cosa peggiore.
Immaginate una "GTB" (Governessa Tecnichessa Boldrini).
O un GTQSBB (Governo Tecnico Quanto So' BBBona Boschi).
Agghiacciante...

[Vicus]

No, la Boschi no! Ridateci Cicciolina!

[Fazer]

ROTFL!!! 

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/05/briefing/europe-edition.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0

Matteo Renzi, the Italian prime minister, said he would resign after voters rejected constitutional changes he backed, intensifying the populist wave crashing through the European Union.
If early elections occur next year, 2017 may shape up to be a seminal year in the E.U.’s history. France, Germany and the Netherlands will go to the polls with strong euroskeptic candidates in the running.
Russia’s president, Vladimir V. Putin, is widely revered as a kind of white knight among new nationalists on both sides of the Atlantic. “Viva Trump, viva Putin, viva la Le Pen” was one Italian right-wing politician’s reaction to Sunday’s vote.
In Austria, voters defied the right-wing populist wave by selecting Alexander Van der Bellen, 72, a former Green Party leader, as their next president.

[Fazer]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/far-right-candidate-concedes-in-austrias-presidential-vote/2016/12/04/12a91500-b8b6-11e6-939c-91749443c5e5_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_europevote-1220pm%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.416525009fe7


Italian prime minister resigns in populist revolt

BRUSSELS —   Europe’s embattled political establishment lost another round Sunday in its effort to thwart the anti-elite movement, as Italian Prime Minister Matteo Renzi resigned after voters rejected his constitutional reforms. But a center-left presidential candidate in Austria handily defeated his far-right challenger.

The thorough rejection of Renzi’s referendum to streamline lawmaking was a significant boost for the country’s surging populist forces just weeks after Donald Trump prevailed in the United States. Renzi’s loss also risks unleashing financial upheaval in Europe’s third-largest economy as Italy’s weak banks struggle to contain the fallout.

But the surprisingly strong presidential victory in Austria for an elder statesman formerly of the Green Party suggested there were still some limits to a wave of anti-elite anger that began in June with Britain’s vote to leave the European Union and continued with Trump’s victory last month.

A populist takeover of Italy is still an uncertain prospect, since Renzi’s center-left Democratic Party remains in control of Parliament and national elections do not have to be called until 2018. But much will depend on the makeup of the next government and how anti-immigrant, Euroskeptic parties capitalize on their success.

“I have not managed to reach victory,” an emotional Renzi said early Monday, conceding defeat at the Palazzo Chigi, his official residence. “My government ends today.”

Viewed narrowly, Sunday’s vote was actually in favor of the status quo, since the constitution will now remain unchanged. But the referendum to streamline the political system and diminish the role of the Senate long ago turned into a broader vote of confidence in Renzi, the youthful, Twitter-loving leader who portrayed himself as a lone warrior against Euroskeptic forces. Renzi, who took office in February 2014, always struggled to budge unemployment and improve the economy.

The lead opposition to Renzi, the insurgent Five Star Movement, ran a spirited campaign against the prime minister’s reforms, joining forces with an unlikely cross-section of allies, including some in Renzi’s own party. Many establishment politicians also questioned whether the reforms truly made sense as the country contends with grim prospects for growth and a wave of migration from Africa. Some said the changes were poorly written and, by removing checks on the prime minister’s power, could actually enable populists should they ever win the country’s top job.

Italy, which has had 63 governments in the past 70 years, is no stranger to political chaos. What comes next will depend partially on Italian President Sergio Mattarella, who is charged with picking a new person to try to form a government, as well as with deciding whether to hold early elections. Elections are a key demand from the Five Star Movement, which is running a close second to Renzi’s party in the polls.

There may also be economic consequences, with Italy’s shaky banks teetering amid the uncertainty. The euro dropped 1 percent against the dollar in early Asian trading following Renzi’s resignation, but many financial analysts cautioned against panic.

In the wake of Renzi’s resignation, Italy’s mainstream political parties are likely to change voting laws to make it more difficult to rule without a wide coalition, diluting the possibility that an insurgent force could seize power in the next elections . That would be a further check against the Five Star Movement, although it would also further entrench Italy’s general political dysfunction.

Renzi’s anti-establishment opponents were trying to capitalize on a wave of skepticism about the ability of elites to deal with globalization and the long, painful effects of the economic crisis that started nearly a decade ago. Trump’s victory last month cheered the Five Star Movement, an insurgent anti-euro force that has support on the left and the right.

Populist wave rejects reforms from Italy's prime minister Embed  Share Play Video0:53
Italy's Prime Minister Matteo Renzi announced his resignation on Dec. 4, after losing a referendum on constitutional reform. Campaigners who opposed his plans, including the anti-euro Five Star Movement, celebrated the announcement. (Reuters)
“Today the arrogance that’s remained in power these last years has lost,” said Luigi Di Maio, who is expected to be the party’s candidate for prime minister in the next election. “So ends the era of shortcuts and tweets.”

Sunday’s votes in Austria and Italy  captured the extent to which Europeans are as politically polarized as Americans, split on issues including immigration and free trade.

In Austria, the far-right Freedom Party’s Norbert Hofer conceded the election on his Facebook page less than 30 minutes after polls closed; projections showed a surprisingly strong lead for independent Alexander Van der Bellen. The 72-year-old statesman and former Green Party politician was winning by 53.3 percent to 46.7 percent with nearly 100 percent of the votes counted.

The result was an unexpectedly clear victory for Austria’s beleaguered political establishment — one suggesting that the aggressive tactics and Trump-style campaign deployed by the Austrian far-right may have hurt more than they helped.

Sunday’s election, in fact, was a rerun of one in May in which Hofer lost by 31,000 votes, a result he successfully contested. His defeat on Sunday by a far larger margin, observers said, may suggest European voters’ unease with the comparisons of their politicians to Trump. It also seemed to rob the momentum from far-right leaders in France and the Netherlands who have called Trump’s victory part of a new “world order” they hope to join in elections next year.

Following Hofer’s concession, he and Van der Bellen exchanged a long handshake for photographers in the Vienna studios of Austrian state broadcaster ORF. Van der Bellen credited his victory to a “broad movement” backing “freedom, equality and solidarity.” His campaign manager, Lothar Lockl, saw the margin as evidence of a push against the nationalist tide by moderates.

“A movement could be evolving here, which is not only for Austria, but can also bring about a change of attitude in the whole of Europe,” he said.

The race for the president’s ceremonial role held  high stakes. The position is constitutionally ambiguous, yet Hofer, who has decried Muslim immigration and free trade, vowed to beef it up — setting up a clash with the center-left government and the European Union. Freedom Party supporters on Sunday had hoped for a “Trump bump” — but it bumped the wrong way.

“The Trump bump could always go either way,” said Reinhard Heinisch, a political scientist at the University of Salzburg. “The fact is, Trump is not very popular in Austria.”

Hofer’s campaign in Austria seemed to echo Trump’s, with far-right outlets spreading damaging fake news and Hofer and his surrogates taking aim at red herrings such as his opponent’s health. There were more allegations of dirty tricks on election day.

On Sunday, Austria’s domestic intelligence service launched an investigation into a mass text message that stated that only Hofer voters should show up because polling stations were overcrowded. Van der Bellen supporters, the text said, should instead vote Monday — although polls would be closed by then, according to the Austrian daily Der Standard.

The race was perhaps more important as a bellwether of post-Trump voter trends in Europe, where nationalists are poised to stage potent 2017 campaigns in France, Germany and the Netherlands. A Hofer victory would have potentially signaled the new electability of the far right. Indeed, the Freedom Party sought to leverage Hofer’s guy-next-door demeanor that seemed to take the bite out of his harshest condemnations, such as that “Islam is not part of Austria.”

Still, while portraying himself as the face of a reformed far right, he persisted in courting a more extreme base. For instance, he wore a cornflower lapel pin — a symbol of German nationalism also used by the Nazis. Hofer on Sunday called for national unity following his defeat. Yet within his party, the attacks were already flying. The Freedom Party’s powerful chairman, Heinz-Christian Strache, accused Hofer’s opponents of running a “massive fear campaign,” saying Green Party supporters of Van der Bellen had painted Hofer as “a Nazi.”

[Warlordmaniac]

Vabbè va, governicchio tecnico Padoan e tutto come prima...
Non che ci volesse molto a immaginarlo...

Chi volevate? Salvini? La composizione del parlamento è quella e è in vigore il consultellum.

[Red-]

Sono ipotesi REd. Ipotesi che dipendono dai padroni veri dell'Italia. Resta il fatto che è una totale contraddizione per un qmmista votare Sì ad una riforma che istituzionalizza le quote rosa. E questo, è un fatto.

si si, vabbè.
...Ma secondo voi le quote rosa in parlamento (nella società reale ci sono già) ora non le metteranno più?
E ritenete giusto che ci siano nel paese reale ma non in parlamento?

Per il resto, forse sono scattate le contromisure di Draghi, o forse si valuta il risultato in Austria più significativo del referendum italiano, ma si dovranno vedere i prossimi giorni.
Già si prevede un intervento statale sulle banche; ovvero gli italiani, con le loro tasse (che aumenteranno, credo) pagheranno il salvataggio delle banche.
Insomma, la matematica non è un'opinione: le quote rosa sono già matematicamente certe, che il risultato del referendum sia un voto di protesta è altrettanto certo, così come è certo che molte cose buone non ne porterà.
Di Maio premier nell'immediato futuro?
ahahahah
 

Vabbè. comunque a me va bene, eh.